Cheney and the CIA-Part 2. Plus Cheney on Town Halls.

"I just think it's an outrageous political act that will do great damage long-term to our capacity to be able to have people take on difficult jobs, make difficult decisions, without having to worry about what the next administration is going to say,"

These were former VP Dick Cheney's words on Sunday on "Fox News Sunday" in response to the decision made by Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate whether CIA operatives used torture in their interrogations of suspected terrorists, and if it was politically motivated and if by doing this it increased the risks to national security that all Americans are currently living under.

Former VP Cheney did this interview on "Fox News Sunday" his first since the announcement by the AG's office that an investigation was going to take place, from his ranch in his home state of Wyoming. Mr. Cheney went on to say, as he has said many times before, that it is his belief that the Bush Administrations use of "enhanced interrogation techniques"-particularly the controversial type known as waterboarding, in which water is poured on to the face of a prisoner to simulate drowning-prevented further terrorist attacks and saved American military and civilian lives. Many people consider waterboarding torture, while others do not. Waterboarding was used on all three top Al-Queda leaders who had been captured repeatedly, including the "Ringleader of 9/11" Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was subjected to it 183 times. It was clear from his use of the term "enhanced interrogation techniques" that Mr. Cheney doesn't consider waterboarding torture.

Cheney furiously lashed out at the Obama administration saying that this second guessing by AG Holder and others "offends the Hell out of me frankly."

He went on to accuse President Obama of leading "an intensely partisan, political look-back at the prior administration."

"The approach of the Obama administration should be to come to those people who were involved in that policy and say, 'How did you do it?' " Cheney said. "Instead, they're out there now threatening to disbar the lawyers who gave us the legal opinions."

This comment leads many to believe that this was the first confirmation by someone in the Bush Administration that a Justice Department classified report will recommend that two former Justice Dept. lawyers have disbarment proceedings launched against them for giving their approval to the use of the interrogation techniques.

Both of these lawyers are no longer in the Justice Department: John C. Yoo is a professor at UC Berkeley (how the hell does a Bush Administration official land in liberal bastion "Beserkley"?) , and Jay S. Bybee is now a federal judge.

Cheney further went on to say that he doesn't think that CIA agents should be put up on criminal charges for using waterboarding excessively, or for having made mock execution threats on prisoners with an electric drill and a gun.

"So even these cases where they went beyond the specific legal authorization, you're OK with it?" Fox News moderator Chris Wallace asked.

"I am," former VP Cheney answered, making clear that he is not backing down from what he believes to be right.

As to whether Mr. Cheney is willing to help out the Justice Department in its investigation, it would seem the answer is, probably not without a fight.

"It will depend on the circumstances and what I think their activities are really involved in," Cheney said.

In previous blogs I have reported on how many claim Mr. Cheney said President Bush "went soft" at the end of his term regarding his disagreeing with VP Cheney on issues like pardoning Scooter Libby and attacking Iran, and going along more with popular opinion. On Sunday Cheney refuted these reports saying that they were "wrong". However, with all the anecdotal evidence, especially what was revealed in the TIME Magazine cover story article in July, I find it hard to believe him here.

He also gave hints about his still untitled book, saying that it will "lay out my view of what we did" including where he and the President agreed and disagreed. He also gave it a little plug saying:

"Its going to be a great book."

Wow. I have to make sure I reserve my copy-once he's actually given it a title.

As usual with something this controversial people on Capitol Hill and around the country are taking sides. For the most part Conservatives think this whole investigation is overblown and completely partisan, while Liberals think that it needs to be done to cleanse the country of the stain of torture and to reveal the truth. However, well known liberal Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California has misgivings about the investigation.

She said she understood Attorney General Holder's reasons for launching the probe, but "the timing of this is not very good" because the Senate Intelligence Committee, which she is the Chairperson of, is already investigating CIA interrogation and detention techniques.

"Candidly, I wish that the attorney general had waited," she said on CBS' "Face the Nation."

Meanwhile in his own party, Senator John McCain (R. of Arizona-do I really need to tell you this?) went on CBS's "Face the Nation" hours after Cheneys interview and while he disagreed with former VP Cheney about the use of waterboarding (he believes its torture, and I think if anyone in the country knows what torture is-he does) but agreed with him about the investigation by the AG office being unneccessary.

"I think the interrogations were in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the convention against torture that we ratified under President Reagan," said the former Republican candidate for President. "I think these interrogations, once publicized, helped al Qaeda recruit. I got that from an al Qaeda operative in a prison camp in Iraq… I think that the ability of us to work with our allies was harmed. And I believe that information, according go the FBI and others, could have been gained through other members."

When "Face the Nation" host Bob Schieffer pressed him about how he could have learned that from a member of Al-Queda, McCain replied with a story telling how he and his good friend Sen. Lindsey Graham, (R-S.C.) had an interview of their own with a captured "high-ranking member of al Qaeda," McCain said that the prisoner told them that pictures of detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib had allowed the terrorist organization "to recruit thousands of young men."

However, despite his acknowledgment and his own personal example that the use of these "enhanced interrogation techniques", (and in his opinion torture techniques), were in violation of international law — laws ratified by the United States that he himself has fought for - and were counterproductive — Senator McCain still insisted that Attorney General Holder was wrong to launch an investigation into the matter.

"I believe the President was right when he said we ought to go forward and not back," he said. "I worry about the morale and effectiveness of the CIA. I worry about this thing getting out of control and us harming our ability to carry out the struggle we are in with radical Islamic extremism."

"For us now to go back, I think would be a serious mistake." McCain concluded.

While the interview with Cheney on "Fox News Sunday" focused mostly on the CIA issue, Chris Wallace also asked the former VP about the current health care debate. Mr. Cheney made it clear that he is 100% against President Obamas reform policies. When Wallace asked him what he thought of the Town Hall meetings where there have been all sorts of ugly incidents complete with screaming, name-calling, and crying all across the country, Cheney said he thought these meetings were "basically healthy".

“I think the fact that there’s a lot of unrest out there in the country that gets expressed in these town hall meetings,” Mr. Cheney said, “with folks coming and speaking out very loudly about their concerns, indicates that there are major, major problems what the administration’s proposing.”

Hmmm, I wonder what he thought about the anti-war protesters screaming invective while he was in office? Kind of different when the shoe is on the other foot I guess.

As soon as anything else breaks on this I will let you know. I will say that for my next blog, I will talk some more about this, but I will also be talking about documentary film-making and the frustration I feel about getting "Vice-Precedence" done. I feel its time to say something about it. Thanks VP readers!

Matt Saxe

Uproar over Cheney and CIA and "The Lion" is Gone.

Well, Vice-Precedence readers, its all hit the fan.

On Tuesday night everything exploded over Attorney General Eric Holders decision to investigate CIA interrogation tactics and appoint a special prosecutor to do so.

First of all, former VP Cheney said that the CIA agents who are being investigated "deserve our gratitude." That they "saved lives and prevented terrorist attacks."

Cheney then said Attorney General Holder's action "serves as a reminder, if any were needed, of why so many Americans have doubts about this administration's ability to be responsible for our nation's security."

Notice that "if any were needed"? Big shot at the current administration.

Republicans came to Cheney's defense. Represenative Pete King (R. Long Island, NY) who said about the revelation that agents used mock executions to intimidate prisoners: "I see nothing wrong with this. If it's to save someone's life, it would have been immoral not to threaten."

Congresman King said President Obama was
"giving the impression of an administration that's out of control. By letting Holder do this, he (the President) has either lost control of his administration or we can't believe anything he says." Which to me seems pretty harsh and inaccurate. President Obama has stated many times that he wants to move on from the past. This is Attorney General Holders decision and he made it.

CIA documents released by the Justice Department show that some interrogators knew they might have broken the law with harsh tactics that included the controversial tactic of waterboarding.

"One officer expressed concern that, one day, agency officers will wind up on some wanted list," the documents showed.


Here's how the mainstream press looked at it and reported it:

From the Tuesday, August 25 World News on ABC:

BRIAN ROSS: ...It was clear today that the partisan battle lines have been drawn over the CIA, led on one side by the former Vice President, who has long been the chief defender of the CIA's harsh interrogation techniques.

DICK CHENEY, FILE FOOTAGE: They were legal, essential, justified, successful and the right thing to do.

ROSS: It was at Cheney's request that the CIA made public yesterday two top secret reports that said the detainee interrogations were pivotal. “Detainees have given us a wealth of useful information on al Qaeda,” the report says, “thwarting a number of al Qaeda operations,” including a proposed 9/11 style attack on Los Angeles, on London's Heathrow airport and the capture of a leading southeast Asia al Qaeda leader who reportedly had 70 operatives ready to carry out terrorist attacks in the West.

Nowhere in the reports, however, does the CIA ever draw a direct connection between the valuable information and the specific use of harsh tactics. So, Charlie, there's just enough for both sides to argue about, while CIA officers in the field are left to figure out just what is expected of them.

From the NBC Nightly News Tuesday August 25th:

ANDREA MITCHELL: ...So who's right? The new documents reveal that 30 of the detainees -- a third of those held in the CIA secret prisons -- were subjected to the questionable practices. Cheney says the tactics “saved lives and prevented terrorist attacks.” His proof -- in part, this memo, describing how 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was water boarded 183 times, admitted to a series of plots: One, in late in 2001, to crash a hijacked airliner into the tallest building on the U.S. west coast, another in early 2002 to send al Qaeda operative and U.S. citizen Jose Padilla to set off bombs in apartment buildings in an unspecified major U.S. city and a never before disclosed plan in 2003 “to employ a network of Pakistanis to target gas stations, railroad tracks and the Brooklyn bridge in New York.

But administration officials say there is no way to know whether the same information could have be obtained from him without waterboarding or whether he would have given it up sooner had he been handled differently. In fact, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed told the International Red Cross in 2006 he lied to fool his questioners.

TOM PARKER, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL: He made stuff up to deliberately mislead his interrogators and make them stop and took pleasure in the fact that the United States had probably wasted money responding to these fabrications.

MITCHELL: An argument experts say that may never be resolved. But tonight, John McCain who opposed the Bush/Cheney interrogation policies, criticized the Attorney General's decision to investigate CIA interrogators, creating more political headaches for the White House.

While this seems like a new revelation, famous investigative reporter Seymour Hersh talked about this way back in March. Here's a link about his appearance talking about it here in MN.


So we'll see where it goes. Its not surprising to see Mr. Cheney responding so virulently to the openings of these investigations. The question of if he will be called to testify by the special prosecutor will be something we will follow closely here on Vice-Precedence.

I would be remiss in not noting the passing of "The Lion of the Senate" Edward "Ted" M. Kennedy. Senator Kennedy had been one of the Senators of Massachusetts since 1962. That's 46 years. Four decades of service to our country. He worked on over 300 bills that became law. He worked with every VP (who presides over the Senate-I hope you readers know that by now) from that time to today, including on a landmark Job Training Bill in 1982 he co-sponsored with then Senator Dan Quayle of Indiana. In fact, many say that the work that Senator Quayle did with Sen. Kennedy is what brought him to the attention of then VP George Bush and led him to the Vice-Presidency.

In doing research for today's blog I tried to find a comment from VP Cheney on the passing of Senator Kennedy, but I couldn't. However, I (too easily) found some truly hateful things being said about Sen. Kennedy that I really don't feel like reposting here. I am not going spread mindless hate from mindless people.

However I found one that stood out because it's the best known and has even been paraphrased by Jay Leno: I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than go driving with Ted Kennedy.

In reading this and other disgusting comments, I thought about what people on the Left may do when VP Cheney passes. After all, people already love to rip on him and many violently hate the former VP just as much as people on the Right hate the late Senator Kennedy. I can only hope that people on the Left can show better restraint then those on the Right. The problem I have with this is that despicable comments just make people hate each other more. It doesn't make one side better than the other to take shots at a man who has just died. If you disagree with someones politics-thats fine-but try to keep it decent. Senator Kennedy made a lot of mistakes in his life, but he was respectful and polite in the Senate-all while strongly fighting for those liberal causes he believed in. In his 46 years in the Senate he learned how to work in a bipartisan way, as his bill with Dan Quayle shows. He was fiercely partisan, but open to compromise. It can never be forgotten that his direct actions did lead to another persons death, but at the same time he accomplished many great things for this country. We're all only human and all of us fail in some way. Lets look at Senator Kennedys willingness to work with those who disagreed with him as an example to follow and try to be civil to each other out there. Thanks for reading. RIP Senator Kennedy.

Update: Investigation of CIA to Take Place!

Those of you who follow this blog know that I have been following Vice-President Cheneys involvement in the creation of the covert CIA Assassination Squad to go after the top Al-Queda leaders in the wake of 9/11. New CIA Director Leon Panetta dissolved the program which never really got off the ground and carried out no missions. Still, members of Congress have called for an investigation due to the fact that this program was kept a secret from the highest members of Congress involved in national security and many other reasons. This assassination squad was very similar in mission and formation to the teams created by Israel for the purpose of hunting down the terrorists responsible for the tragedy in Munich at the Olympics in 1972. Though I doubt any of them looked anything like Eric Bana. Last week I revealed that it wasn't just the CIA involved in this plan but also the highly controversial private security firm Blackwater was also brought in to work on the program. Even though Director Panetta dissolved the program immediately upon learning of it, its stirred up a hornets nest of interest among many in Washington and around the country.

Today the U.S. Justice Departments Ethics Office has sent a recommendation to Attorney General Eric Holder that he reopen a slate of cases of abuse and torture by the CIA of Al-Queda detainees. This could possibly lead to either Congress or the Ethics Office ordering an investigation into these CIA assassination squads.

Also today the Justice Department will release their internal investigation into how the CIA treated prisoners at Guantanamo in Cuba and other prisons around the world.

Its possible we could learn about who in the previous and this current administration knows about what happened with torture and the assassination squad.

President Obama has stated many times his desire to "not look back" but Attorney General Holder feels these new revelations merit investigation. Could we be seeing Congressional hearings similar to the famous Church Committee hearings in the 1970's which revealed the CIA's abuses? Will former VP Cheney be called in to testify? What is going to be revealed next? Stay tuned here for more and thanks for reading.